Welcome everyone to the first episode of the Talk with Donuts Podcast! I am your host Donuts and today we will talk about a situation and figure out whether or not it is one that fetishizes Asian women or is one about a normal sexual kink.

Here is a short clip of the podcast below via Spotify. You can hear the whole thing with the second file below too via Radio Public. You can find the podcast on Spotify, Anchor, Pocket Cast, and RadioPublic.

Here is the rough (not exact) transcript of the podcast if you want to follow along. Keep in mind that not everything in the podcast will be on here because of editing and not everything on the “transcript” will be in the podcast.

A couple weeks ago, one of my friends sent me picture of a post she had found on Reddit. 

After reading it, I was a bit annoyed, so I typed the title into Google and found the post. I’ll link it underneath the podcast for you guys if you’re interested on seeing it yourself:

My (27F) boyfriend (27M) asked me to “act more kawaii” in the bedroom. I’m asian and he’s white. I don’t want to shame his kink but I don’t want to be fetishized.
byu/ThrowRAway9927362902 inrelationship_advice

Now, I’m not surprised it’s another situation about an Asian girl complaining about her white boyfriend’s actions.

But I was more interested in addressing a specific comment the post received that had really irked me. Before I dive into it though, I’ll read the post to you guys first so we know what we’re talking about.

Okay, now, here is the comment that I will focus my discussion on today. Strap on because it’s loaded.

Someone responded to this comment and said that it was “spot on”:

I have to admit that I was livid with both these responses, especially with the first one since it received about 13 awards (something Reddit does for great posts/comments/opinions).

Luckily, not everyone agreed and we actually got a comment that directly opposed that sentiment.

Okay, before we get into the topic of race and sexual kinks, let’s first just look at the comment that received a lot of awards and break it down paragraph by paragraph to stay organized.

Good Person Argument

Just because you’re good and you treat someone right, doesn’t mean you can’t also be racist or offensive or still be a (kind of) bad person. Or a person with bad intentions.

There are people who are good and treat their significant other (S.O.) well, but they watch child pornography or molest children! Does their good treatment of their S.O. excuse their secret life? You deserve to get off, have orgasm(s), enjoy sex–but there are realms that you enter or lines that you cross that can potentially be off-putting to your partner and this is where we are. The woman in this situation is uncomfortable.

This next commenter made an excellent point:

Now, the Redditor who we are addressing today had claimed that everyone is telling the original poster that she should break up with her boyfriend because “‘he’s being racist in the bedroom'” and only wants her because she is Asian and then says “whoa, how can we know that’s the ONLY reason he likes her?”

Well, while what he said that sometimes relationship advice on Reddit can be presented from a biased perspective–for instance, showing one side only and/or missing the bigger picture, the phenomenon known famously as Asian (women) Fetishization is called that because it is just that. FETISHIZATION.

Asian (Women) Fetishization

Here’s my take. You are allowed to have fetishes! I’m not here to fetish- or kink-shame anyone. Hey, I love guys in uniform and in suits, but it’s fetishizing ASIAN women and seeing them as OBJECTS rather than as HUMAN that is the problem.

Here, let me give an example of that sentiment and its effects on Asian women from someone who had experienced it firsthand.

NOTE: This comment is from a different post which I can also link underneath the picture for anyone who is interested.

This particular comment says:

I’m an Asian woman and I have given up on white and Asian men.
byu/vietnamese-bitch inFemaleDatingStrategy

Images from Reddit

That is just a peek into the gross-ness of Asian women Fetishization. We’re seen as only cute, almost like we’re childlike. We’re seen as small and petite which to me sounds terrifying because topped with the stereotype that Asian women are seen as submissive, all it sounds to me is that you just want to dominate Asian women. That’s not a good feeling if you can think of it from my perspective and in my shoes as a woman.

And then, there’s the colonizer joke. Before we go further with what’s wrong with the sexual kinks that involve race playing, let’s continue addressing that Redditer’s comment. So the next paragraph, he/she says:

First off, this comment almost seems like it is discrediting or refuses to acknowledge Asian women’s experience with fetishization and the nasty stuff that is said to us, which reinforces these stereotypes and these kinds of behaviors toward us.

The commenter had admitted that they “know white men who date MAINLY Asians” and they are “treated with such suspicion for having ‘yellow fever.'” However, that is EXACTLY why it’s called Asian fever. If a large portion of the people you date(d) are Asian, then of COURSE, people have the right to assume and/or suspect that you have Asian fever. Hey, “if it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.” 

This shows me that they are not aware of this problem. That is why I will say right here, right now on my podcast:

Asian Fetishization is a thing.

We–Asian women–and other people have the right to be suspicious of white (and any other type of) men who only want to be with us because of misguided, misinformed, and mal intentions. BECAUSE this happens a lot.

It’s a very common issue!

And it’s troubling because this attitude and its resulting behaviors affect us. And we want to be safe, feel safe, and be loved the right way: for WHO we are. Not for WHAT we are or are born as.

Think of it this way: picture a small town, we hear of or see a dangerous man and if we care for one another, we will alert our fellow townspeople and neighbors so no one gets hurt because of him. No one wants to hear about their friends being harmed or someone we know of being put in danger when we could have prevented it. It’s how we look out for each other as a society and as decent fellow humans to each other.

Let me also explain another reason why the boyfriend in this situation is wrong and (somewhat) racist. Taiwanese vs Japanese–they’re different; not the same! He–as her boyfriend–did not take the time to learn the difference before daring to ask for her to speak Japanese during sex. He has time to find and buy her the sexy clothes, but does not have the time to educate himself and realize how offensive (and insulting) that request is? Or the difference between those two Asian cultures, people, and languages?

If you have a Latina or Black woman in bed with you and asked them to act more kawaii, isn’t that insulting to them because that’s not their culture, ethnicity, or race? Wouldn’t she–the woman in this situation–feel the same way as a Taiwanese being asked to speak Japanese during sex? Shouldn’t she feel that way? Offended?

And let’s say IF she was Japanese–isn’t that just as stereotypical and revolting as if a white guy and I go on a date and they take me out for noodles because I am an Asian woman and he thinks noodles is a mainly Asian dish? Try offering watermelon or fried chicken to a Black woman or suggest salsa or tacos to a Latina/Hispanic woman as a date idea and see how they react.

Hey, this girl in this situation is free to talk this out with her boyfriend to salvage the relationship, but I’m just going to say that his behavior is already a red flag because Asian Fetishization, as I just said, is a common problem and things are already not looking good for him.

Now to address another thing the commenter said. Yes, the original poster claims that he compliments her, but she doesn’t specify WHAT he says to her specifically.

We don’t know that he “ONLY” likes her BECAUSE she is Asian, as the Reddit commenter said, since they get along fine (meaning the relationship is good) and he compliments her “all the time.”

However, the reverse can be true: we don’t know what he says to compliment her.

Going back to my earlier statement that just because you treat a person right does not mean you can’t also be a racist, or at least offensive. He could be (just) saying she’s cute and because she’s in love with him (another bias we should consider), she thinks that those compliments are enough.

But there’s the cute clothes he gets her, too. Yes, he’s spending time and money on her, showering her with costumes/gifts (because again, who doesn’t like gifts?), but he could potentially see her as just a cute Asian girl he gets to fuck in sexy garments. With such behavior, I’m even tempted to bet that he brags to his friends about his Asian girlfriend. You know, labeling her as his Asian girlfriend rather than as just his girlfriend. But, like the Reddit commenter said, who knows?

Remember how I had said earlier that “Asian women are seen as sexual objects and not as humans“? Let me give a comparison as to why that is so wrong for anyone who still believes otherwise and needs a more understandable and even relatable situation:

There are people out there who want to be in relationships because they claim they have a lot of love to give. They shower their S.O. with gifts and affection–look, you’re treating your partner right, in those cases. You know, who doesn’t like gifts and love? BUT! The intention and the place where those actions are coming from is misguided and wrong.

You don’t love the person you’re dating; you love the IDEA of love.

The same idea/concept applies here: this guy is fetishizing her.

He’s not taking the time to educate himself and realize that Taiwanese people are NOT the same as Japanese people, food, culture, or language. In relationships, you need communication, trust, and RESPECT. The fact that he has no idea about these differences shows his ignorance and disrespect at best and displays a repulsing fetishization at worst.

Him wanting to get off from her acting cute, evidence that he sees her as a child, is hair-raising.

It’s okay to love someone for a quirk they have; for instance, you probably heard of guys saying, “oh, I like it when she bites her lips when she’s nervous. It makes her look cute.” That’s fine because it’s a unique trait you notice about her and that you love about your partner.

But it’s when the girl in this post says that she is feeling like she’s Asian Girl #7 and feeling replaceable because he can get off with just any (perhaps Asian) girl who can comply with his hentai fantasies, that’s when we’re crossing into dangerous territory and it might not be him loving her for her but what she is and can do for him in the bedroom.

Now let’s go to the next paragraph:

Race =/= Profession

First and foremost, comparing race to a profession is wrong and many people understood that. Here’s a comment:

I really like this post because it pointed out something important: “just because you personally haven’t seen it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.”

A lot of people nowadays have a hard time empathizing with others or putting themselves in someone else’s shoes and just listen to their experience, to their pain.

See, this person acknowledges that Asian fetishization exists while the commentator we’re talking about today argued that he/she knows “white men who date mainly black women” who aren’t regarded suspiciously as when they are white men dating mainly Asian women. Again, it’s regarded suspiciously and in such a manner BECAUSE it is a well-known problem and there’s a label for it.

Look, just because a man has not or does not experience misogyny or sexual harassment in the work place does NOT mean it does not exist for women. There’s a label for it because many people experience it, it is a concern, and is a real issue.

Here are other comments echoing the idea that you cannot compare racial sexual kinks with profession-related sexual kinks:

There are two things I want to say. Firstly, maybe there are people who have nurse fetish or have a kink for their partner dressing up as nurses in the bedroom. But for someone to prey on them and make them their romantic partner simply because they are nurses is most likely unheard of. Additionally, as someone mentioned in their comment, you can remove your scrubs off and are not discriminated for being a nurse like you are living in your skin and experiencing negative attitudes toward your race or ethnicity on an almost daily basis.

Secondly, the slave master and slave kink. Does it have to be that explicit and obvious to be deemed racist/racism?

That’s one of the annoyance that I have when it comes to racism against Asians. When compared to racism faced by Brown or Black people, Asian racism is always deemed not racism or not racist enough to be worth given any attention, time, or discussion. That attitude is wrong.

I said it once before in my “What Does It Mean To Be Asian American” blog posts. Racism is like cancer. Just because breast cancer receives more attention than an unknown or rare cancer, doesn’t mean the rare cancer deserves less attention, care, and research efforts/funding than breast cancer. It’s still killing or hurting people.

Is it a Communication Problem?

Sure, but as I already said, his actions speak for themselves. If she wants to continue dating him, go ahead, it’s her choice. However, she should, at least, discuss the discomfort she feels and educate him. If he is not receptive of it, I would leave.

However, as one person I saw online put it in these types of situations:

“I want to date and fall in love, not be a history teacher and educate someone about race and what’s not offensive in the bedroom or not.”

So if this woman is cool with that, dating while educating, that’s on her and there’s no problem with that. She chooses to date him and she chooses to stay with him.

Now going back to the Reddit commenter we’re talking about today and what he/she said:

This person says they don’t see anything wrong with the boyfriend’s behavior (again showing their dismissal and/or unawareness with Asian Fetishization) and then proceeds to say that “some Taiwanese girls may have no issues with it whatsoever.”

We, Asians, are not a monolithic group, just like how other races are not one entire group that thinks or acts all the same way. Just because one or even a few Taiwanese girls is/are okay with being fetishized, doesn’t mean you (or in this case, this woman/the original poster) have/has to be.

In fact, maybe the other girl(s) who is/are okay with being fetishized may not even realize she/they is/are being objectified and thus, fetishized. But I am not her/them and cannot/will not speak for her/them. If she/they is/are, in fact, okay with it, then that’s a different topic for another day.

Look, Asians face a lot of invisible racism, or implied/masked racism. That does NOT mean that that is not racism just because it is not outright, obvious, or horrendous.

I will give the commenter credit that at least they know that communication and being comfortable is key in a relationship.

Do I think this is Asian fetishization or a sexual kink? I’ll play devil’s advocate for the boyfriend and say perhaps he’s not aware (?) that he may be fetishizing her, but I won’t go any further than that and I won’t wholeheartedly believe that that is NOT true. I’m pretty sure he’s a little bit aware his girlfriend is Asian and she’s attractive to him because she’s Asian.

I’m not going to even bother with the rest of the comment because I’m just done with this person.

Bottom line though: I am just this one Asian girl with an opinion and personally, I think this is Asian Fetishization. Because there is just so much evidence for it. He can also be incredibly ignorant if this is just a sexual kink. But I will lean on the Asian Fetishization side. There’s just too many elements of it here.

What do you guys think? Please let me know in the Comment section below. As always be respectful and kind. Let’s have a civil, open-minded discussion. Talk with me, Donuts. I’m your host of Talk with Donuts. Thank you for joining me today for this conversation. Let’s talk again next time in Episode 2.